In this episode of Back and Forth, host, Cara Hagan sits down with Michele Byrd-McPhee to talk about her career, her inspirations, and speaking to her childhood self. Byrd-McPhee is a self-described street dance activist and founder and artistic director of the New-York based Ladies of Hip Hop, an organization that centers women’s voices and histories in Hip-Hop culture.
In this episode of Back and Forth, host, Cara Hagan sits down with Michele Byrd-McPhee to talk about her career, her inspirations, and speaking to her childhood self. Byrd-McPhee is a self-described street dance activist and founder and artistic director of the New-York based Ladies of Hip Hop, an organization that centers women’s voices and histories in Hip-Hop culture.
INTRO: Welcome to How People Move People, a podcast about the impact that our words, art, stories, and lives have on each other. Each series' journey unfolds in a sequence of six episodes. The first series titled ‘Back and Forth’ is hosted by Cara Hagan, a New York City-based choreographer, professor and mother who explores the influence of pop culture on the lives of black girls, from the 1990s to today. Guests range from poets and thought-leaders to mom-and-daughter teams, to an original Fly Girl from the Wayans Brothers hit ‘90s TV show, “In Living Color.”
LADY BYRD: If I can speak my mind, what would I say? Being a strong black woman doesn't mean I don't have pain. Doesn't mean I don't need help. Doesn't mean I don't need care. Doesn't mean I don't need protection. I need your care. I need your concern. I need your help. Because these bags are heavy. I need I need I need love. I need hugs. I need kisses and uncomfortable public displays of affection. I need surprises. And just because it's because well just because. I need to matter to you.
If I could speak my mind, what would I say? I'm exhausted. I've been in defense mode since girlhood protecting myself from belts and switches and brooms and anything at arm's length. Protecting myself from predatory men, strangers and those known to me. Protecting myself from black familial trauma, protecting myself from toxic family, toxic friends, protecting myself from you. Protecting myself from me. Protecting myself from memories of being unprotected. Wounded, but still here. In fact, I am certain I've earned a purple heart from the wars of my childhood.
CARA HAGAN: The excerpt you just heard is from a new work in progress called, “Speak My Mind” by hip hop choreographer/dancer Michele Byrd-McPhee, which I had the pleasure of seeing on stage at Lincoln Center in the fall of 2022 as part of the Works and Process series, an initiative of the Guggenheim that supports artists in creating new work and sharing iterations of that work throughout the process of creation. McPhee is a self-described street dance activist and founder and artistic director of the new-York based Ladies of Hip Hop, an organization that centers women’s voices and histories in Hip Hop culture. A Philadelphia native, McPhee was recently honored by having her image included in a new mural unveiled in the city in December 2022 celebrating the 50th anniversary of hip hop by artist Christian “TAME ARTS” Rodriguez. You can find a photo of that mural and a photo from a recent performance of “Speak My Mind” on the podcast website.
Welcome friends, to Back and Forth, a podcast exploring pop culture and the kinetic lives of Black girls. I had the pleasure of sitting down with Michele Byrd-McPhee to talk about her career, her inspirations, and speaking to her childhood self. It’s such a beautiful conversation, I don’t want to say much more, other than get comfortable, and take a listen. I hope you are as inspired as I am by Michele’s words.
CARA HAGAN: I'm so excited. So, I want to jump right in with the street dance activism. What is a street dance activist? And how did you become one?
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: Oh, wow. Um great question. I think, to be honest, I think that's still evolving in terms of like, what the definition is. And and if I think about it, really, it just to me means doing whatever needs to be done to center uh Hip Hop culture, in particular women in Hip Hop culture, and do the work of being treated fairly, being paid fairly, being taken care of, and not taken advantage of. And so, whatever that work requires, or calls me to do, um is, is is part of what I think a street dance activist is.
CARA HAGAN: Hmmm and so, coming from an art form that has historically been male dominated, how did Hip Hop find you?
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: Hmm, good question. Uh ‘cause everyone usually answers, or asks the reverse, which is like, when did you find Hip Hop? Right? So, I think I don't have a clear kind of separation of like, oh, now I love Hip Hop. Because, you know, I grew up in a household that was that played all different types of music. And, and my mom was a record collector, and my uncle was a radio DJ. And so, when I say we had tons of music albums, actual physical vinyl around, um this was just another album that was put on the turntable for us to dance to and so I don't know that I have a clear like, oh, I love Hip Hop, it was just more music. It was more Black music at the time, you know? Um It, you know, it was the Sugar Hill Gang, you know, which was, for me an extension of what I was hearing, you know, you could think about songs that were RnB songs that you heard people, you know, rhyming and patterns, you know, so, you know, for me, it was just an extension of Black music. But if I think about when I decided, like, hey, I kinda want to pursue this uh as a career, even though that probably wasn't the conscious words, it was just uhm you know, how can I figure out a way to have this part of my life at all times? It was probably in my late 20s, you know, so, you know, I'm not gonna say how old but it was quite a while ago. And, and uhm I knew, even as I've tried to, like, work, uhm not tried, but as I've been in other fields, it's never left me in terms of uhm whether I'm presenting work or, or, or, or producing an event, it's always been part of my life since the music came along uhm you know, the movement, and the culture all came with it. So, you know, I think since its inception, it's been part of my life.
CARA HAGAN: Mmm beautiful. And so, thinking about you as baby Michele, when you were growing up, who were some of the most influential artists in your life, and what did they teach you about being in the world?
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: Awesome. Uhm Well, I always start with my mother, she was such a huge influence for me. And uhm even though she didn't pursue dance as a career, my mom was a designer and on and she also was a hairdresser. So, from very young, she made all of our clothes, but also had her own line of clothing, with her own group of models that she did both their hair and their clothes. And so, for me, and then she opened physical spaces at when I was really, really young. So, I think her first salon she had when I was twelve. So, for me, this idea of women being entrepreneurs, were just, it just was normal for me, as opposed to like, you know, it being a thing now, you know. Uhm so for me, the very, very first artists uhm to have a huge impact on me and still does is my mom. And then I would say, you know, my uncles as well, you know, my mom and my uncles always dance together. So, for me dance started as a family, but uhm musically, I think, you know, again, we had so many influences, but I think when I started to kind of find my own music, uh Prince was a huge artists for me. I know most dancers hit Michael Jackson, but to me the music that Prince was creating was so different and so funky and that he could dance and sing and play instruments. Uhm I think the even though it can be taken two two two ways, but you know, even though a lot of the women that were around him were hyper-sexualized, but they also had a level of like, this is my sexuality as opposed to him presenting them as a as arm candy, even though they kind of were at times, but they all were, you know, producing their own uh artistic products as well, you know, so, Prince for me was a huge influence. Patti LaBelle, Teddy Pendergrass, all of Philly sound ‘cause I'm originally from Philadelphia. So, any music that came out of there was a huge influence on just like, the soulfulness and, and the uh fullness of of music and dance for me.
CARA HAGAN: Yeah. And so, coming from Philly to New York, what were some of the cultural differences that you picked up on as a mover? In terms of your practice in Hip Hop? I mean, obviously, every dance form has regional differences and quirks about it. So how would you compare the two and how were you comparing the two as a young person?
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: As uh young person, I think the comparison is more like, uhm just names, the way things were named are different, but you know, and those things were regional. And there definitely were some dances that existed in Philly, that may not have made it to New York yet, or weren't part of that vernacular, but, but also it was the commonality, you know, and the, the immediate connection of no matter where you're from, uhm you know, the song and the dance, right? So, you know, once that song drops, which you're supposed to do, and so uhm I think, even though you know, not being born in New York City, or raised in New York City, you have this like idea of it being so huge and being so different. And in many ways it is, but, but in terms of that subculture of music, and dance, especially Hip Hop, its more interconnected than it is divided. And so, it was more seeing the commonalities and how we could, you know, connect with each other uhm without me knowing, you know, the street vernacular, maybe of New York City, a little different than Philly, but you know, all the same, you know, in terms of who we are as people and how we exist in that space and music.
CARA HAGAN: Mmm, beautiful, thank you for saying that. And so, I want to talk a bit about Ladies of Hip Hop, this is a big thing in your life, it Ladies of Hip Hop festival has been around for 16 years. So, tell me a little bit about the inception of that project, its trajectory and where it's going?
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: Yeah, so Cara at this point, just because you probably I haven't updated my bio on the on the, on the website, so we just finished our eighteenth year. So, we had to, yeah, so we're rounding out our you know, we're, we're working our way up, I should say, to our twentieth year, which is really exciting. I never foreseen it to to stay around this long, or even provide this much opportunity. But it's a it is my life you know. As much as I've worked other jobs and tried to get away from it. It's all it's been part of my life for the last twenty years and really been what's kept me grounded and happy and in any space that I'm working in. But especially now, because post pandemic, actually, right prior to the pandemic, I had decided that, you know, I wasn't going to work for any other organization, I was going to really put all of my time and effort into Ladies of Hip Hop and, you know, see what could come out of if I took all of my kind of resources that I've, you know, gathered from working in different spaces and apply that to Ladies of Hip Hop full time. And so being able to work on this full time has allowed us to create more programming. So, the week-long festival is what it is, it's just getting better and better every year. Uhm we are able to have so many amazing women who come and, you know, chat on our panels, our discussions, who are part of our workshops, who present their own work as part of our showcase, and then who kind of round out our week by participating in the battle, whether it's just, you know, they're celebrating other women battling, whether they're judging all female DJ panels, so it's just like one of the most energized and kind of fun spaces to be in for a week. But we also now have, you know, a performance company, and so we're sharing, you know, more on a regular basis, this work that we're creating and what we're doing. So, coming up with that matter of fact, we have Pillow this month, so we're going to Jacob's Pillow, returning actually and then we're performing at The Shed here in New York City. And we have some other kind of residencies happening that I can't, you know, announce yet. But, you know, continuing to do this work, and in particular, I'm focused on a project called Black Dancing Bodies, which is focusing on women, Black women in Hip Hop. And the reason why it's necessary is because I personally kind of felt like we were disappearing. And I also felt we weren't connected, right, and so that I feel like we are kind of the model for a lot of things that get copied or used or taken and then given back to us in a way, as if we weren't the creators and innovators of it. And so, I felt it necessary for us to connect on a bigger level. And it originally just started out as a uhm photography project just to for us to be seen. And now we proceeded to, we had a world premiere of a work at the Guggenheim in March of this year. And we've workshopped it in some Pillow Labs, and we'll be going back to Pillow this summer to re-present some of that work. And so, I think, I don't know what's on the horizon, I just want to make it to twenty years. Uhm I am just, every year just so grateful to be able to continue it, and we're just gonna keep doing some amazing stuff. I opened up a studio, that is a pop-up studio that I partnered with Snipes with, and uhm I'm just trying to do all the most amazing partnerships that I can do. So, bringing the Breaking community together, bringing the Waacking community together, and, and presenting events with them, we're going to have our first residency in January. So, we'll have resident artists, just thinking outside of the box of how to exist as an organization, and as artists and more of a collaborative effort beyond just serving our mission and our vision. Because in order for street dance to survive, we have to kind of band together and continue to present everyone's work and, and give space for everyone.
CARA HAGAN: Mmmh beautiful. And having been to the festival. I mean, I know that kind of energy that you're talking about. It's infectious. Absolutely. And, you know, have having the festival been around for eighteen years, I imagine even though you started as an adult, you've grown up a lot in this process. Can you talk a little bit about that?
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: Absolutely. I mean, I don't think I knew at all what I was doing when I started. So uhmm you know, I grew up, yes, you know, getting older doing it, but but I've learned so much over the years and, and learned how to I found my voice within it you know. Uhm even though I was empowering women for many years, I don't think I was even empowered, as you know, as I should have been, you know, always making uhm kind of talking about the work in a different way or uhm making apologies for being Hip Hop or for being a woman or for being Black, you know. So yes, in those ways, I have really grown and developed as an uhm Executive Director, I really kind of understand what that means and being able to convey our mission and vision and why what we do is important to folks. Uhm but then just getting better logistically and like running it, now it kind of runs itself, you know, now with that said, it's a lot of work. But you know, we have developed a system and, and everything is documented. And so, this way of, you know, it just getting better and better every year has just been, you know uhm being around for twenty years, almost twenty years has allowed space for that. And so, I feel like I'm learning every year, you know. We took on two new partners this year, and so with time those things are, you know, things that you can do. And so, we partnered with uhm Chelsea Factory, and our big partner for the week was Give Me Dance and having, you know, just learning how to partner with other people is a big deal, right? Because I've been doing this by myself for for seventeen years. So, this year, the eighteenth year, we had these partners who also have been around thirty-forty years, you know, way longer than us and have And so, you know, knowing how to have that voice to make sure again, that we're always taken care of and respected and and say, Hey, that might be how you do it, and it works for your you know, your demographic, but if you really want to, if you really want our people to be here, both as artists and audience, these are the things that you are gonna have to do you know, and so that comes with time. I definitely did not know how to do that and how to have that voice uhm when when it first started. So So yeah,
CARA HAGAN: Yeah. And so, speaking of development, you have this arm of the Ladies of Hip Hop called Girls of Hip Hop. And that's for Black and Latino girls aged ages seven to seventeen. Talk to me a little bit about that, and what the importance of that program is?
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: Um yeah, again, it was, it really came out of just, you know, I throw events and I have classes and we all teach in just noticing that within those spaces Brown and uh Black and Brown girls weren't always present. If they were it was one or two. And so just making sure we are doing the work of uh not just existing for the sake of existing and being a great event and being a great organization, but make sure we're doing the work to reach out to the youth of the community and provide opportunity. And it's not necessarily always, these are communities that are under resourced. It's just that, you know, we, as Black and Brown people have often given away the things that we've created, but also they have been stolen, right? And so generationally, you know, there are kids that have-didn't grow up with with Hip Hop music in the sense that, you know, they understand the history of it, or the culture of it, or the dance of it. It's more, you know, especially with social media, so we're battling, you know, our kids learning the music, uh only in a commercial sense, and only in this sense that you know, of this social media entertainment. And so, we wanted to provide a space that not only to bring those young girls in, but also provide a space for Black and Brown women to teach, right? And because we are often not the first people in that in that space as well, educators and so you know, even with, I had Jackie, Miss Funk from Versa-Styles teaching, Tweedy, even the younger dancers who, you know, are representing different communities. I have dancers who are both Black and Japanese. And so, you know, having that representation, as teachers, as educators, people passing on the dance is super important. So, so I feel like the mission of that project is twofold. But it's, you know, it's very important. And basically, what happens is we, uhm during, actually, during the fall, summer, it's kind of hard because kids have so many other things to do. But during the fall, we offer online classes. And that was also because we didn't have a space. So, this fall, we will have the actual physical classes where the girls can come once a month and train with three different teachers.
CARA HAGAN: Congratulations, that’s awesome [Byrd-McPhee: Yeah Thank you] So thinking about Hip Hop culture more broadly, what does Hip Hop ultimately teach young girls about moving through the world, in your opinion?
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: Great question. I don't think I've ever been asked that question [Laughs]. I think uh if I think about the culture as a whole, it could, it can teach community, right? Uhm and it could teach that we have a space, I have a belonging that we are innovators, that we are amazing at what we do uhm If if we, if they're able to find those spaces. So I do feel like, you know, we have a job as people on the inside of this, and artists to really make sure that we are finding these young women, and and, you know, doing the work of tapping into really giving them the real thing and not like surface, you know, because if I listen, I don't knock any music, I feel like artistically, I can see why a Cardi B would be interesting, as well as a Noname, right? You know, they're every spectrum of how we exist as women in Hip Hop culture, and in particular, the music ‘cause that's the most visible, and that's often the first thing that young women are seeing. I can see, I don't think the answer is to like, erase any part of that, you know. I think is to show the fullness of who we are as women, but also show the fullness, you know. Because we often only see the Cardi B and so, you know, that's our job is you know, to make sure that we are giving a full spectrum of how we exist in this space and how we can be empowered as organizers, as educators, as speakers, lecturers. You know very often we shy away from that space in particular, to just tell our story, you don't have to know everything about every portion of Hip Hop, but you do have to know how to communicate your story and your love of it. And so, I hope on some level, that is what we are doing with with girls and women in Ladies of Hip Hop.
CARA HAGAN: Beautiful. And my final question for you is what does Ladies of Hip Hop give back to baby Michele?
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: Aaaah. Yeah. Um, oh, wow. Wow, great question [Laughs]. What does it get back to baby Michele? It really does give a sense of there's a place for me because I didn't go to college until I was twenty-four because I felt like I knew what I wanted to do and it was involving street and club dance culture, and I couldn't find that in a higher education space. And I never did when I went. Uhm but with what I did, personally and what I did, you know, in terms of higher education, I was able to find my, not find, but make my own path. And so, it's giving me a level of like, there's a space for baby Michele, uhm you will get to be on the Ailey stage, not as an Ailey dancer, but as you're, you know, doing your own stuff. Because I was like, obsessed with Ailey when I was younger, and still am: amazing organization, amazing dancers. And, uhm and, and, you know, Brown girls are smart, Brown girls are dope, you know. Like, I was young during a time that you know, it wasn't it there wasn't so much Black girl magic and all this empowerment. It wasn't really, like cute to be a Brown girl, you know, and so uhm to to if I can impart anything to her as to do continue to love and do the things that you want to do because it will, you will go far beyond what you ever dreamed.
CARA HAGAN: Mm So gorgeous. Thank you so much.
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: Thank you.
CARA HAGAN: Thank you for all your wisdom. You are dope. I'm such a fan. And thank you for gracing us with your presence today, for giving us your time.
MICHELE BYRD-MCPHEE: Thank you for having me, Cara. It’s always, always dope.
CARA HAGAN: Thanks again for joining me on the Back and Forth podcast and I hope you’ll join me next time, when I sit down to chat with Deidre Lang, an original Fly Girl. If you grew up in the 90s, you know what I mean. I’ll see you there.
OUTRO: How People Move People, is brought to you by The National Center of Choreography at The University of Akron, or NCCAkron. This podcast is produced by Jennifer Edwards, James Sleeman is our editor, theme music by Ellis Rovin, transcription by Arushi Signh, cover art by Micah Kraus. I am Dacquiri Baptiste, Vice President and COO at Orpheum Theatre Group in Memphis TN, and a proud NCCAkron Board Member. Special thanks to The John S. and James L. Knight Foundation for their continued support of NCCAkron programming like this. To learn more about NCCAkron, please visit us at nccakron.org and follow us on Instagram or Facebook @nccakron. We hope you enjoyed this episode and encourage you to subscribe on your favorite podcast streaming platform by searching for How People Move People.